This was great. The conversation really went so much above and beyond the article (which I read prior to listening).. As someone who came from a finance background which was heavily male dominated and later ventured into education as a second career, the difference was clearly about as stark as one could get. One IMMEDIATE observation is the always repeated mantra in education that "collaboration" is super important, perhaps critically important AND, most importantly for the purposes of this convo is a "21st century skill" that absolutely needs to be taught to "the children". My immediate thought coming from the very competitive world of finance was ... REALLY????? says who?? the women of course :) (though of course I'd grant that within teams collaboration IS important.. but that's also where male conflict resolution rules hold!!) (and even within "teams" in the corporate world, especially finance, there is individual competition that can sometimes get quite hot and "unfriendly". )
Helen's argument would land better if she weren't otherwise a relentless partisan. Trump is the bitchiest mean girl president we've ever had.
To say she works in "conservative media" is a misdirection. She works in *Republican* media. Self-respecting conservatives left the party long ago. They didn't necessarily switch sides. The Dispatch remains committed to conservatism without endorsing Democrats.
Very provocative on multiple levels! I agree and disagree in so many ways.
- Nonprofits and foundations are basically in crisis largely due to the group-think that's occurred the past few decades. Their response to the current conservative whiplash has been to circle the wagons, double down and basically stick their fingers in their ears and shout "la la la la la la." Hence, they are still indicating pronouns in signatures and doing land ackowledgements and speaking in very serious tones about everything.
- The whole coaching and leadership development world, where I've worked for 20+ years, is overwhelmingly feminized. This shows up in a desperate desire to agree on everything, which includes having immediate belief in half-baked theories like trauma-informed coaching and examining brain differences as a guide to workplace functioning.
- Both men and women in Gen Y and Z seem to have fully and unthinkingly adopted the beliefs and methods of the "over-feminized" workplace, the types of things that Jonathan Haidt has written about in his books - feelings are everything, victimization is everywhere, and overt conflict is to be avoided.
- HR ladies (and a few gentlemen) are not really agents of anything. They are usually disempowered in their roles. It's the overall cultural shift that is responsible for new behaviors, not the HR department.
- The Goldman Sachs settlement was unique and not really a sign of risk to other companies. In finance, compensation is given out in a Game of Thrones style - you win, I lose. The $200 MM settlement (which isn't much in the GS scheme of things) was a recognition of egregious shutting out of women from money and titles.
RE: Behavior of young children. When my son was 6 years old my wife and I hosted a birthday party. The vast majority of his friends were boys, so that's who came to the party. But there was a girl in his first grade class that he was friends with, so we invited her. Another girl from a different school who he had been friends with from the age of three was also invited. So you've got ten boys and two girls at the birthday party. Did the girls seek each other out? No way. They glared at each other, as if to say "What are you doing here?" Keep in mind these were six year olds in an upper middle class neighborhood and school system. Everybody was taught to be nice to each other. But the two girls, who had never met, were obviously at odds, both thinking they were my son's special female friend.
Meghan -- your example about an airline captain and first officer is not correct -- the training about working together is called Crew Resource Management (CRM) and it began being adopted in the early 1980s. Many resources about this on the web.
This was great. The conversation really went so much above and beyond the article (which I read prior to listening).. As someone who came from a finance background which was heavily male dominated and later ventured into education as a second career, the difference was clearly about as stark as one could get. One IMMEDIATE observation is the always repeated mantra in education that "collaboration" is super important, perhaps critically important AND, most importantly for the purposes of this convo is a "21st century skill" that absolutely needs to be taught to "the children". My immediate thought coming from the very competitive world of finance was ... REALLY????? says who?? the women of course :) (though of course I'd grant that within teams collaboration IS important.. but that's also where male conflict resolution rules hold!!) (and even within "teams" in the corporate world, especially finance, there is individual competition that can sometimes get quite hot and "unfriendly". )
Helen's argument would land better if she weren't otherwise a relentless partisan. Trump is the bitchiest mean girl president we've ever had.
To say she works in "conservative media" is a misdirection. She works in *Republican* media. Self-respecting conservatives left the party long ago. They didn't necessarily switch sides. The Dispatch remains committed to conservatism without endorsing Democrats.
"bitchiest mean girl president." So true!
Very provocative on multiple levels! I agree and disagree in so many ways.
- Nonprofits and foundations are basically in crisis largely due to the group-think that's occurred the past few decades. Their response to the current conservative whiplash has been to circle the wagons, double down and basically stick their fingers in their ears and shout "la la la la la la." Hence, they are still indicating pronouns in signatures and doing land ackowledgements and speaking in very serious tones about everything.
- The whole coaching and leadership development world, where I've worked for 20+ years, is overwhelmingly feminized. This shows up in a desperate desire to agree on everything, which includes having immediate belief in half-baked theories like trauma-informed coaching and examining brain differences as a guide to workplace functioning.
- Both men and women in Gen Y and Z seem to have fully and unthinkingly adopted the beliefs and methods of the "over-feminized" workplace, the types of things that Jonathan Haidt has written about in his books - feelings are everything, victimization is everywhere, and overt conflict is to be avoided.
- HR ladies (and a few gentlemen) are not really agents of anything. They are usually disempowered in their roles. It's the overall cultural shift that is responsible for new behaviors, not the HR department.
- The Goldman Sachs settlement was unique and not really a sign of risk to other companies. In finance, compensation is given out in a Game of Thrones style - you win, I lose. The $200 MM settlement (which isn't much in the GS scheme of things) was a recognition of egregious shutting out of women from money and titles.
RE: Behavior of young children. When my son was 6 years old my wife and I hosted a birthday party. The vast majority of his friends were boys, so that's who came to the party. But there was a girl in his first grade class that he was friends with, so we invited her. Another girl from a different school who he had been friends with from the age of three was also invited. So you've got ten boys and two girls at the birthday party. Did the girls seek each other out? No way. They glared at each other, as if to say "What are you doing here?" Keep in mind these were six year olds in an upper middle class neighborhood and school system. Everybody was taught to be nice to each other. But the two girls, who had never met, were obviously at odds, both thinking they were my son's special female friend.
Great discussion, thank you.
Meghan -- your example about an airline captain and first officer is not correct -- the training about working together is called Crew Resource Management (CRM) and it began being adopted in the early 1980s. Many resources about this on the web.